Jump to content

Talk:San Francisco

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Former featured articleSan Francisco is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.
Main Page trophyThis article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on November 17, 2006.
On this day... Article milestones
DateProcessResult
April 4, 2006Good article nomineeListed
August 3, 2006Featured article candidateNot promoted
September 6, 2006Peer reviewReviewed
September 10, 2006Featured article candidatePromoted
June 30, 2008Featured article reviewKept
December 24, 2021Featured article reviewDemoted
On this day... Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on January 30, 2011, January 30, 2014, and January 30, 2017.
Current status: Former featured article

Question about European arrival

[edit]

There seem to be two dates in conflict in the article.

One statement is: "...Spanish exploration party arrived on November 2, 1769, the first documented European visit to San Francisco Bay.'

Another is: "The mission received its name in 1776, when it was founded by the Spanish under the leadership of Padre Francisco Palóu." / "On June 29, 1776, settlers from New Spain established the Presidio of San Francisco at the Golden Gate, and the Mission San Francisco de Asís a few miles away, both named for Francis of Assisi."

Spanish must first have arrived in 1776 or earlier to have built "The Mission Dolores adobe chapel, constructed in 1776" Mission San Francisco de Asís?

Can anyone clarify?

I visited recently but don't live in the US. I am researching for something I am writing and noticed this difference. Pakoire (talk) 19:52, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The 1769 date refers to the first European exploration of the area - the Portolá expedition - while the 1776 date refers to the settlement of the area. Two different things. Cristiano Tomás (talk) 14:00, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Cristiano Tomás thanks, yes. I think now I look at it again that I was being dyslexic with the numbers actually. It does make sense! Pakoire (talk) 02:00, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
three separate settlements, in separate places:
  • military
  • civil
  • religious
69.181.17.113 (talk) 19:11, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image proposal

[edit]
Image 1
Image 2
Image 2 alt. 1
Image 2 alt. 2
Image 3
Image 4

Hello, I've searched for suitable images for the infobox of this article and have found several options I'd like to propose for consideration:

I believe these options could enhance the visual appeal and contribute to the encyclopedic value of the article's infobox. Tobiasi0 (talk) 11:42, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'd call this proposal unopposed and insert the images on April 28. –Tobias (talk) 11:57, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Tobiasi0 I've added the images to this comment as previews, hope that was OK. '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk|contribs) 11:48, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
CanonNi Sure thank you, I just have to change the Alcatraz picture Tobiasi0 (talk) 11:53, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
we've discussed spamming images in the lead here before please see archive.Moxy🍁 21:36, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I did, and the only and first reason I found against a collage was copyrighted material or the incomplete representation of the city showing single buildings, which is not the case here, since I don't have those specific images in my proposal. Additionally, the inclusion of 3 to 4 images in the infobox is anything but 'spam'. –Tobias (talk) 03:59, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Last thing we want is the scrolling nightmare and teeny mini images like at New York City. Most readers only scroll one time that doesn't even get you halfway through the info box so really people only see the first paragraph of the New York article . 15 images in the lead is a good way to deter readership. Moxy🍁 04:27, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Moxy like I said, we are talking about 3 to 4 images, not 15. I don't like the infobox images of New York City either. –Tobias (talk) 04:31, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Tobias only suggested adding 4 images max. That is hardly spamming. Please don't hyperbolize the situation --haha169 (talk) 04:44, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing short of a full WP:RFC will change the single photo to anything else. Longstanding consensus is against two or more images. San Francisco page editors are generally not interested in anything else but the one photo. There is no requirement and definitely no need to make every city page fit the exact same layout. Binksternet (talk) 05:00, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
From the perspective of an uninvolved outsider, I much prefer what LivinAWestLife did to the current infobox with two images. The current view of the skyline captures more, but it comes at the expense of everything in the distant background (i.e. the city itself) being conspicuously blurry. The image WestLife uses captures the downtown in much better detail (and they also arguably use a better shot of the Golden Gate Bridge). It's also patently ridiculous that their change to a suitable single image afterward was called "vandalism" in the edit summary. At worst this would be disruptive editing. I would be happy to participate in an RfC, but I'd advise against against holding one for a bit since this is in the spotlight on Reddit right now, with some comments actively suggesting WP:CANVASSing. TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 06:42, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As the editor in question, I agree with all of your points but I would like to expand on that as well. From the article's history a version of the page with a photo montage was up for a few months in 2024 before Binksternet changed it back. That at least partly indicates most readers found it a worthwhile improvement.
I can see that the consensus was established when much discussion was made over this issue a decade ago, but in the past 5 years whenever the issue has come up it has always been a few editors, particularly Binksternet and Kurykh, who have been quick to shut down any discussion, falling back on said "longstanding consensus". Consensus can certainly change, and in fact I see more editors trying to create new infoboxes than the number rejecting them.
Either way, the current image is not the best photo to represent San Francisco, mainly because the skyline is hardly visible behind the Golden Gate bridge. Both are essential features of the city, so I would concur with you that at minimum we could feature just those 2 images and leave it at that, as capturing both adequately in a single frame would be hard.
Regarding the infobox being long: up to 5 or 6 images would not change that if the current one was already deemed long. Other major US cities have longer infoboxes that extend well into the body of the article (e.g. Miami, Chicago) but a request to have only a single image in those articles have never been seriously raised. LivinAWestLife (talk) 06:58, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's fine, but Moxy's reply was needlessly sarcastic and biting (WP:BITE) and I was just reminding them. --haha169 (talk) 07:06, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
From the article's history I can see that a version of the page with a photo montage was up for a few months in 2024 before you changed it back. That at least partly indicates most readers found it a worthwhile improvement.
I can see that the consensus was established when much discussion was made over this issue a decade ago, but in the past 5 years whenever the issue has come up it has always been a few editors, particularly you and Kurykh, who have been quick to shut down any discussion, falling back on said "longstanding consensus". Consensus can certainly change, especially as its been many years since this was really discussed at length, and in fact I see more editors trying to create new infoboxes than the number rejecting them. Literally the only pushback I see for nearly a decade is from you, Kurykh, and Moxy. Three editors is not what I'd call sufficient to establish a consensus; in this thread alone there are more people supporting a photo montage.
It also just makes me curious exactly why some people are so against this when no other city has this seen so much controversy. LivinAWestLife (talk) 10:05, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This certainly sounds like whatever consensus was formerly here is now in question, and this issue needs to be discussed afresh to re-established a consensus opinion, one way or the other. — The Anome (talk) 11:20, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"The City" in reference to downtown alone

[edit]

An edit in 2001 added a line that today appears as, "for residents of San Francisco living in the more suburban parts of the city, 'the City' generally refers to the more densely populated downtown areas around Market Street." I can find nothing in the cited sources to support this, nor could I find even an unreliable confirmation via a cursory Google search. @Member: What is the origin of this assertion? Have you got a source? Ibadibam (talk) 18:57, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In absence of a source, I have removed this passage from the article. Ibadibam (talk) 21:40, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Concur with your removal of that inaccurate text. Thanks for taking care of that! --Coolcaesar (talk) 00:13, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ellis Sox (1909-1989), Director (1952-1970) , San Francisco Department of Public Health

[edit]

how to start article:?

Ellis Sox (1909-1989), Director (1952-1970) , San Francisco Department of Public Health

37 citations at Talk:San_Francisco_Department_of_Public_Health#"Doctor_Sox"_"San_Francisco"_"Director_of_Public_Health"

69.181.17.113 (talk) 19:21, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

free health care, hippies, drugs, diseases, other ... 69.181.17.113 (talk) 19:27, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Request for comment: Images in infobox

[edit]

There has been a discussion above regarding whether more than a single image is required in the infobox. Some commenters have referred to a "longstanding consensus" against multiple images, but I see little evidence that that consensus still holds in the discussion above, other than by bold assertion.

I invite comments regarding the number of images that should be in the infobox, from both involved an uninvolved editors.

  • Option 0: no image
  • Option 1: only one image
  • Option 2: two images
  • Option 3: three or more images

Note that this is about the number of images, not the specific images to be chosen, since the number of images seems to be the primary point of contention.

I will ping all participants in the discussion above, but please note this is an attempt to establish consensus, not to push any particular point of view, and all editors are welcome to contribute. I hold no position as to the favoured option, and thus won't express my opinion.

Note also that this is a request for comment, not a WP:VOTE; please express a rationale for your position on this, rather than just chiming in. Non-specific references to "the archives" or that this "has been discussed many times" are not sufficient; please re-state your argument here.

— The Anome (talk) 11:26, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pinging participants: @Tobias, Tobiasi0, CanonNi, Moxy, Haha169, Binksternet, LivinAWestLife, and TheTechnician27: — The Anome (talk) 11:31, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment There seems to be a substantial precedent of articles on major cities having several images in their infobox (Munich, Manchester, Boston, Chicago, London, Paris, Berlin, etc., etc. Is there one that doesn't apart from San Francisco?). The same applies to other "large" subjects, e.g. WW2, which has a well-discussed montage. This seems reasonable as any large place/subject is going to have several pictures that can represent it, with just one being insufficient. If the argument is that all those other articles should not have multiple images, then that goes against the clear consensus (actions speak louder than words) that they are appropriate. Reading the above, I find it hard to find any reasonable (to me) argument against multiple images. ThoughtIdRetired TIR 12:26, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Option 3 imho. I don't need 10 images either, but three or four wouldn’t do any harm as far as I’m concerned. –Tobias (talk) 13:34, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:San_Francisco&oldid=1257350530"